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Pimp Metaphysics: Victoria Platt Tilford

Counter Intelligence with Victoria Platt Tilford
Victoria Platt Tilford, gallery owner, actor and regal woman of substance, has appeared in "Jelly's Last Jam," "Dreamgirls," "Guiding Light" and "All My Children." Her latest project is the launch of Studio Gallery with her partners, the Tilford Art Group, in Los Angeles. Recently, we had a chance to dialogue on women, spirit, art, and the state of hip hop. Here's what she had to say:

Tell me a bit about Tilford Art Group and your mission behind the gallery space you have here in Los Angeles.

Tilford Art group was conceived by my husband, Terrell Tilford, who is an artist and also a collector. The mission is to bring art to the community and to show people that they have self-interest in collecting their peoples work. It's an investment. But, also it's to change peoples ideas about what art means.

When I was younger I went to museums because I had to. Certain courses required that I go to museums and do reports or work on artists. But, it always seemed very removed from me because a lot of the people who were considered masters--I didn't like their work. Now that I understand what "art" is, I am not ashamed to say that I am not a huge Picasso fan. It doesn't move me. And now that's what I understand art to be--for me it means to move me.

A lot of people, I think especially in our community, shy away from art because they think, "That's above me." Or, "That's outside of who I am." Or, "I don't understand it." Or, it's an elitist activity--to go see artwork. And then a lot of people don't feel that it's within their budget. Were trying to squash all of those ideas and give people a new understanding of what art is.

It's about what speaks to you. What you deem as good art is good art. What you deem as moving is moving. And it's not to say that I don't like Picassos work. Frida Kahlo--her work moves me. I love Frida Kahlo. And then there are a lot of masters who don't move me and there are a lot of masters who do. And there are a lot of artists who aren't well known who move me. It's like food. Everyone doesn't like artichokes. Just because they say it's a delicacy doesn't mean you have to like it.

What do you think the importance of visual art is in the Black community or the audience you are dealing with? Because, obviously music is a very large, flourishing artistic creation in the Black community but what can visual art bring to people?

I think, one, its documentation. Its documentation of what we've gone through, what we go through, of how we feel. I think any self-expression is extremely valuable. It's much more acceptable to be a musician and that's something I believe should be changed because, all of it is valid. And, all of it tells our story. And not just slavery, you know, I want to hear the spectrum of who we are and that's what I think is missing. We only have music. What about literature? What about visual art? We are not just athletes. We're very diverse. Were a diverse people and Id like to see that represented.

But the major thing is documentation of who we are. I think it's very important for us to collect original work because we have a part of our history. Whether its old work or new, slavery or current times, it's all documentation.

I was reading an interview with a dancer from Brooklyn, Princess Moon Cooper. She said how in traditional culture everything is about the arts and the purpose of the arts is to pass on values and stories. I am always thinking about what is the purpose of art and in different cultures it has different meanings. What would you say it is?

I think it has many different meanings and many different values. In Africa, our art was tribal art. It was to recognize different tribes. It was scarification. That was art. It was art on the body, tattooing. It was to recognize a specific culture. To identify with family--to relate to people--how you relate to them. Now I think it's changed, but not so drastically, because its representative now, I believe, of how far we've come in the races self-expression. Now we get to show what we've gone through honestly.

This is how I feel about something and I believe it's the same thing that dance does. It could be historic and telling a story or it could be an interpretation of the artists feelings about a certain subject.

I was thinking about the idea of art as a tool to transfer values and stories in terms of hip hop culture now. If you think of the various mediums within hip hop culture as the artistic forms, what values are we transferring? And, what stories are we telling?

I don't think were fully utilizing these tools. I am constantly thinking about what is the purpose of art? Am I just sitting on my *ss making stuff or should I be out there teaching, being a nurse, doing something more meaningful? You know what I mean. So I was thinking about this in terms of hip hop and where we are at in terms of really recognizing it as an art form.

I believe hip hop is an art form. I believe it's become very easy to ride on the fantastical element of it and not use it as an instrument of teaching, use it as an instrument of storytelling. Because, the griots were doing the same thing, they were doing it exactly the same way. They had beats, they danced, and they told stories to beats. I am in agreement that we have not utilized it to the degree that we can. I believe some people have.

I think in American culture in general, we don't appreciate the visual arts enough, and if our awareness was raised of what art really is would more and more people functioning within hip hop culture use it more productively?

That's a good question. I actually don't know because I think what it comes down to is not just awareness but people seeing their self-interest in utilizing the tools in art. Maybe I see this more in the visual world because I am involved in the visual arts world--Willie Torbert is an artist we have represented, he shows the pimp, thug 70s scene, our scene, which was you know, it was a wonderful culture, that was a wonderful time, it was rich. But, then there's Jackson Collins who is kind of fine art, but a little dark--we have the spectrum of stuff. Not as many people know about it but the spectrum is there.

I think in terms of hip hop culture we do do things the easy way sometimes. It's been so difficult. It's such a challenge that "...okay, well, this formula is working. Let's just do that..."--instead of pushing the envelope and saying, "What do I really have to say?" Because art is really about...self-expression. What are you saying? What's important to you? Where's your voice?

I was also thinking about self-expression and what is the importance of self-expression? I don't like to use big academic words but, you know, were all like "postmodern" and "nothing matters" and "everybody has their own opinion" dada dada--so why be self-expressive? Or why not just be commercial and just do it for the money? What would you say is the beauty of self-expression?

Ok. Well, ok, on the one hand yeah you could say, "Why do it?" but, then again "Why not?" If the world is not a better place because you've been here, then you've wasted space. That's what I believe. And you've wasted air.

On a deeper level the only reason we can be in this postmodern sort of day and age that were in is because people have been allowed to be self-expressive. Because there was a time when there was all this oppression and people were not allowed to say what they felt, you couldn't burn the flag. Do I agree with it, no, because I don't see the point. But, it is a form of self-expression.

When artists do performance art on the street I never understood it. I always thought, "That's such a dumb thing. How stupid is that. They stand out there and I don't get it and I have to stand and watch." They're doing some obscure abstract thing and I just didn't get it. But I thought about it, it all has to be accepted as self-expression. People watched it, so someone got it. It's about standing up and having your voice be heard as to who you are. Because it allows other people to do the same thing and that's important.

We're not quite at a place where all of us feel empowered by the society we live in. Art allows you to be empowered because, you may hear someone saying something that you've felt or you may see something that you yourself have had the feeling of, or experienced, or agree with. That allows you to stand straighter and to say something about it. Case in point...I saw a piece that had to do with domestic violence. It got me involved with the V-Day celebration, the "Vagina Monologues," because it was very important to me...all of a sudden it sparked something that must have been in me already, but had I not seen that work, I wonder if I would have gotten so involved? So now I go to missions and I perform for women who have been abused. But it was that piece that gave me the backbone, "I can do that, yeah that's what I want to say. I want to say that too."

It's almost like you have to have some sort of faith that things can improve? I'm very curious about spirituality in our peer group, within hip hop culture and its extensions. I'm very interested in our spiritual state of being?

Me too.

I think that dominant culture is not supportive of the fact that we are spiritual beings first. And a lot of people are kind of lost in the...paying the bills, trying to figure out what they're going to do...maybe some greater recognition of visual art within African American culture could help us see the spiritual side of ourselves more because the music is kind of getting...

I think everything is spirit. I think spirit is in everything. It's how we recognize it and how we choose to express it. I agree. I'm not concerned because I have faith that there is a movement--and I feel it--there's a movement happening that there's a lot more spiritual awareness. People are becoming, if I can use an esoteric word, "enlightened", whatever that means, or evolved.

In terms of what we do as artists, and all of us are artists, every single one of us. I don't care if you have a 9-5 job, if you're a surgeon, everyone is an artist. Everyone has some kind of creative gift. One, because our creator created us, therefore we are creators. There is no way we cant be.

The closest that we get to spirit, I believe, is creative arts. Were pulling God or the universe, whatever you want to call that energy, out of absolute nothingness and we make something. And its just what we created and that's the closest that you're getting to expressing who you are as spirit.

It is extremely important to get in touch--all of my friends who are not in some sort of creative something have a harder time relating to people, expressing themselves and communicating. They have a hard time, and certainly this is not a study, but it's different for them. My relationships with them are very different than ones with people who are not just artists, but people who are involved with art somehow--whether its dance or music or singing or visual art or whatever. Because there is a part of you that is not being satiated or fulfilled if you are not being creative. Its part of who we are. We create. In its ultimate we create life. I know I just got kind of esoteric on us....

No, no that's good because I was thinking of this whole idea of creation too. And that is kind of our essence, but that [creation] also in terms of women and that special gift that we have to create life or bring life into the world, and that power. I have some people around me asking me about that power lately, you know men, and why is hip hop so caught up on women as an object or just a sexual being and all of that....?

Well, oh boy, this could be a scary thing....I think a lot of things happened to us in slavery that we brought with us and we haven't processed them healthily and they have metastasized into something else. There was a lot of dissension among black men and black women.

Black men were basically castrated. They were taken away from their families, told that they were nothing, so their power was taken away from them. Black women on the other hand became extremely strong and then had to take on very masculine qualities. So there is resentment there and because of that resentment there was a separation in the unification of the family. But, also between us as individuals who respect each other and who share with each other. We don't do it in the same way. So, in an effort to make contact and to re-connect a skew has happened in how we view each other. All of a sudden were "hoes" and "you fine" and calling your behind an "onion." I know its not to be disrespectful (now sometimes it is and that's different) but I think a lot of times they don't understand why we are not impressed and encouraged by the comments.

There was a man on the street who told me, "Oooh baby, look at that onion. Ooh that's nice." And, I just went up to him. Instead of me getting all annoyed, I asked, "Brother, what do you think is gonna happen? How do you think I'm going to react when you say that to me?" "Oh sister I'm just giving you props." He really thought it was a compliment and I think we've had some things that have happened in our relations as black men and black women. We have gene memory, if that's possible. And I don't think we completely know how to deal with it and so they've dealt with it one way and we haven't dealt with it healthily either. We call all men dogs or none of them can be trusted. We have this thing, "Oh you've got to protect yourself." From what? We've both done this sort of weird adjustment to fill in the spaces where we don't have history together. But the truth is there's nothing that could have been done about that hurt and that pain. It's not either one of our faults. It's just that's what was. But we were never given tools to correct it. How to mend our relationship. Our single mothers, within the hip hop culture, the constant looking at women as objects, you know? And that's my theory on it. I don't obviously have any scientific....

That's okay, I not interested in science. I've always thought that the evolution of our spirits is the main purpose in life. We have spiritual growth were supposed to engage in and in terms of men and women there's a certain mental, spiritual, physical connection that you can genuinely experience that will evolve your spirit. And, I just think it's really sad that people don't recognize what they're missing out on by playing all these games, you know, and power trippin...I wonder how we can get back to learning about that? I even think a lot of educated successful people that I know don't even understand that. You know?

Because, it's not an intellectual understanding...If I may quote the Holy Book, you have to worship God in spirit and in truth. But in spirit, spirit comes first. Jesus never said anything about the intellect. It was never about the intellect, it was about the spirit. I don't know exactly why, I don't know if its in our effort to "make ends," or our efforts to get ahead, or to equalize things, to level the playing ground, to have all that stuff--all that shiny stuff that we think were supposed to have--that we've strayed away from spirituality.

By spirituality I don't mean church necessarily. There are all kinds of spirituality. It's all wonderful and it all works if you work it. But, in our generation and the generation after us and the generation before us there was a hope that was missing. AIDS, drugs in the community, broken homes, fathers not in the household--there's not a balance and so you lose connection with spirit. Some people get drawn to spirit for that reason but, some people detach and retreat. That, I believe is a personal journey. I don't know, and of course, I believe art is supposed to lift people up because the truth of who we all are is spirit...so if you are in the truth of who you are, your actions and your thoughts, you are in alignment with the universe. I believe art is supposed to help you do that by showing you the truth. Whatever their truth is then maybe you'll say, "Oh well that's not my truth, but my truth is this." So, I don't know what completely happened with hip hop culture. Because, for a long time it was about being honest, the truth, being "real." But, then it strayed away from the spirituality of it.

On the same level of being in alignment with spirit and truth, as an actress, what do you think is going on with all these actresses posing half naked on magazine covers, what is that about?

Alright, first I prefer being called an actor. Only because, and I know people are like "blah blah," but you don't call a female doctor a doctress. You know? But, that aside. My peers, my girls, its acceptable and it makes you more popular obviously. So do I have major issue with it? I do not. What are the repercussions of our choices? Every choice has a repercussion, a consequence. What are you doing it for? "Okay, I have $5 in the bank. I really need money. Okay so I know why I'm pimpin myself. That makes sense."

Basically, that's what it is. You're doing it on your terms. Can I say anything about that, no. Do I think it is damaging? To some degree, yes. Not because they're showing their body, but because they are appealing to something that is not necessarily healthy and, men don't do it...it's not the same thing. That's a problem because then we're being objectified. I don't like that. Unless Denzel is going to get up on the cover of some magazine in some little bikini, then why would I get up there with my breast glistening and my butt showing. It's not something that I feel I need to do.

Do I have an aversion to being nude or showing my body, no, if it is part of the story. As far as pictures, no, not really. I love being sexy, I love sexy clothes, I like looking sexy, but I don't need to look sexy for the world. I need to look sexy for my husband.

If it's about me becoming popular I think that's too high a price because I don't need to do it. If that's what is doing it then you don't know who I am. There is so much more to me than "my beautiful body" or "my gorgeous face." I mean, it's a wonderful thing to have, to be attractive, but that's not what I'm giving you. That's not what's making the world--what's making the world better is not how beautiful I am. It's what I do with my gift. It's how I help people. It's how I love people. It's how I teach people how to be more of who they are.

That's smoke and mirrors stuff again. Its buying into what people say is important. Like when they had the "It Girl" list. What the heck is an "It Girl" list? What does that matter? Where is the "It Guy" list? I don't judge other people because they have their own set of standards. I can't possibly know what they're thinking. But, Halle Berry in Swordfish--I didn't understand it. Why? Because people expect you to show your body because you're beautiful? I'm interested in seeing everyone's body if that's going to be the case. Put Kathy Bates naked in a movie. Its objectification, that's what I don't agree with. It's about lust. It's about sex and lust. I don't want to see that.

The other thing that bothers me about it is, my younger sister thinks Britney Spears is amazing. That bothers me, because I personally don't think she's an amazing performer. I don't think she's an amazing singer. So what she's hooking you with is sex, and that tells other young girls that that is where their value lies. And they use their sexual attraction, they use whether they are appealing, they use whether men think they are attractive or want to have sex with them , or are lusting after them, as a barometer for self-worth.

That's a problem for me. I think some of what happens in what were talking about now is what bothers me. Granted, I did a movie where I showed my breasts, but it wasn't about sex. I was getting into a tub. It wasn't nasty. People say, "Well you showed it." But, it's my intention. It was also a conversation that I had with the director and the cinematographer, "Were not glistening up the breasts. Were not making them pretty." You know I had scars at the time. It didn't matter. Scar on my back showed. It wasn't about trying to entice.

What made you come to this understanding? Did you have a strong female presence or male presence in your life?

God....has been my female and my male presence.

Ain't nothing wrong with that.

I believe some of it is grace. I've always been very grounded. I've not always done the smart thing. I haven't always made very good choices, but spirit has always given me someone or something to push me back on the right track. I think a lot of that is what you said before, it's my faith. I know who I am. I have a faith in what God has for me and what God has planned for me. He loves me so much that he's not going to let me make a hard right and let me stay on the wrong path if I'm on the wrong path. He goes "Ok, she made a wrong turn. Let me send some markers in the road to help her get back on track." You know, people go, "That was my sign. I knew I should of done that." You'll get another chance. It's never too late to get back on your path.

I've always been spiritual, I guess you would call it. I've always been very connected to spirit in whatever different ways that took. I was Buddhist for a while. I studied Vodoun for a while. Christian, Christianity, Jehovah's Witness, chanting, Sitah meditation. Because there is truth in everything. There's truth in everything. Were all searching, it seems to me, for the same thing. We want peace. We want fulfillment. We want abundance of good stuff. If you think about it, it's not about the stuff. The things that we have, it's wonderful to have wonderful clothes and a nice car, the house, dada dada. But, peace in your spirit. Comfort in knowing what your place is, that's peace. It's an important thing. No one else except me and God. There can't be anything else.

That allows me to make decisions not based on what other people are saying is supposed to be. Then I can say, "Oh that's not true for me and I know that for myself. You can do that. That's fine, but that's not for me." I believe that's my faith. I think everyone can have that because faith is not some abstract idea. Like people think love is abstract, no it's an action. You have to love someone. I can't just tell you I love you. How do I know? What have you done? You don't call. You don't write. Faith is an action. It's an activity. Because you don't worry when you have faith. You can't. They void each other out. You can't have worry and faith in the same place. They can't co-exist. If you have faith you can't worry. If you have faith you're pressing on. If you have faith you are looking at the "challenge" and going, "Ok I see that, but I know it's going to work out. My eyes are open and my ears are open and my heart is open for the answer that's going to resolve this. Whatever the lesson is Ill learn it and Ill move on."

I hear you. I hear you. In every column I ask for a stream of consciousness response to conscious capitalism.

Oooh, conscious capitalism, those are big words for me, so, I would...I'm not supposed to think right?

Yeah, it can be one word, whatever, anything you want, whatever comes to mind.

It makes me think of race consciousness. Race consciousness is...not like race, but what people have an agreement on. Like the Dow Jones or investments. "Oh you are supposed to do this or this is not going to work." "You're supposed to get married and have kids at this time." Race consciousness, that's what it makes me think, because you have to get agreement--people need agreement to have power and to make money.

So you have to move everybody to your point of view. However you need to do that. You could do that by making them think that they're going to die, or they're not going to be included. That's what it makes me think of.

I know that the Tilford Art Group always donates a portion of their proceeds to a non-profit organization. What is that exactly and why did you decide to do that?

Well, what it is--and actually myself and Reginald Coleman are in charge of finding a non-profit--we've been given so much, mentors and people along the way, and instead of sending all of them a thank you note its like paying it forward. We put money back into the community, put money into programs and organizations that we believe are self-expressing, you know? That are also helping the community. So The Little Angel Bunny Foundation is the one we've chosen for this show. They help children who have been abused, who have been abandoned or have been challenged in situations. They allow them to express themselves through the arts and through music.

We thought it was definitely the non-profit for this show because I am a huge supporter of kids. They are like the most amazing untapped resource we have and I think it's really important that, a lot of these issues were talking about, in correcting them, if we start when they're young then we wont need to correct them. It will already be a part of who they are. Knowing that they are worthy, knowing that they are valued, knowing that their voice is worth being heard. Knowing that they are loved and that what they have to contribute because no one else can contribute except them. So each show we donate money to say thanks to God for lifting us up constantly.

Well thank you Victoria and good luck on the grand opening of your new gallery space.

Tilford Art Groups Studio Gallery will be celebrating its grand opening with the show, STAND UP! Individualism in a Collaborative State, on Sunday, January 25, 2004. It is located at 5449 West Pico Blvd, Los Angeles CA 90019. Visit tilfordartgroup.com for more information.

Check out dianamcclure.photofolio.com or portfolios.com/dianamcclure to view more of her images.

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