Full Version: Random Thoughts
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| QUOTE |
| 3. We have imposed DEMOCRACY Cole, D-E-M-O-C-R-A-C-Y, ya dig? That 1 person, 1 vote concept works well in homonogenized societies, but tends to be problematic in fractured countries where you have large divions of different ethnicities, religions, tribes and the like. |
Odd - that sounds a lot like Brooklyn...nevertheless problematic and free I'd take over orderly and oppressed. But we now know what side of that issue you lie on.
| QUOTE |
| The very fact that you liken the "American ideal" to a "human ideal" is why I feel you're a facist. We have no right to tell those people how to live. |
Rhetorical tricks 101 and shameful Dill - I did nothing of the sort. You concluded that Democracy is an American Ideal and then made the charge. I said Democracy is a human ideal. Perhaps you're confused about what the word means? At its root (From the anceint greeks - adopted by the Romans, exalted by the French, IMPOSED upon the Germans, enjoyed by the majority of the worlds nations..jesus how is this American????) it means - of the people. The primacy of the individual over the state - or more precisely the state DERIVES its power from the people.
I'll take a second to address the goofy characterization of me though I'm reluctant to do so because it has nothing to do with Hussein or Iraq. I'll go slowly here:
fascism by definition puts the state ahead of the individual, democracy says there is no state without the individual - do you understand the dichotomy there? To say I'm a fascist (state over individual) because I believe democracy (individual over state) is a human ideal is just kinda dumb.
Its depressing to get this fundamental but you want to twist shit around. It's not depressing to tell you something you don't know, but depressing because I know that you already do, and for the sake of getting post points you purposefully twist.
Which leads to the next disingenious whopper lol
| QUOTE |
| Furthermore the vast majority of OUR DEMOCRACY would have never supported a war in Iraq if it's basis was to bring so-called human rights to Iraq. How can you ignore such a basic point? Americans, the republic, the average Joe, the Al Bundy's, the Homer Simpson's, would have never wanted this war had the stated goal been to bring "freedom" to the Iraqi people. Never. The will of the people in our democracy has been violated. |
I agree, but thats not why we went to war, and I never said that it was..how am I ignoring it when you just brought it up? The context here was: I asked why you thought we (presumably the world and not like me and you) were better off with Hussein in power than in jail. As I understand it (for the fourth time) its because "the devil we know is better then the devil we don't". Again: homespun homilies are cute for over the door needlepoint but hardly add up to competent statecraft.
The fact that Hussein is being tried is a result of things that have already happened - he's in the dock, being tried by Iraqi's for crimes he committed against Iraqi's - here we have the tyranny of goverment humbled by justice and the gavel (not the gun), and these are the facts as they are today.
| QUOTE |
| 4. Weak and cowardly? Try North Korea. Try China. Try Pakistan. Try Saudi Arabia. Try Isreal's treatment of the Palestianians. I have something STRONG and BRAVE for you. |
I'm not sure what you have thats strong and brave for me, but I'm certain that I don't need it lol. I don't get your point here though - that these are repressive, authoritarian states? I agree. That they deserve to have truly representative governments and policies? I agree. That if we free Iraq we should free every oppressed country in the world - well then hold up. How about one at a time? I don't set policy for this country Dill, and I'm not a dogmatic, binary thinker. Maybe you can write a letter or check to see if we received any "requests for help" first lol.
| QUOTE |
| You have yet to make one solitary point, one single coherent argument. Simply put Cole you're pointless. |
Hooookay!
| QUOTE (MsBrg722 @ Dec 6 2005, 03:20 PM) |
| Hi Kouns: The second question being the easier of the two, I will start there. American’s foreign policy should always be looked at in terms of what the American citizens want. We live in a time where there is a Quinnipiac poll for almost everything; it is not difficult to figure out where the American “majority” lay on a specific issue. (Unfortunately, this is a “best case” scenario, in which every American citizen understood the value of his or her political responsibility and made sure it wasn’t wasted. Since this is not the case, polling typically speaks to a very biased “majority”. But you won’t see me knocking their hustle…because these are the people taking the initiative to be heard, but alas I digress.) Like it or not after 9/11 there was an emotional outcry made by the people of the US granting permission for our government to take action against our “enemies. While yes the facts may have been misrepresented, each of us has a responsibility to find the truth…not accept the truth because it is handed to us on silver platter. That did not happen in this case. However issues such as Apartheid…The International Aids Crisis…and finding peaceful solutions to the Middle East Conflict are all issues I believe we needed to lend our resources to. (I do understand why you feel the two issues may be conflicting, I just feel that in the issue of democracy a case must be proven to the American people, not just to government officials) As for what qualifies as human rights issues…this is a little more difficult and please take into consideration that I am ever evolving in my thinking on this topic. By my estimation, a blatant human rights violation occurs when populations of people are not allowed to leave oppressed situations. I don’t think that the western world views outrank other countries; however, if a woman living in the Middle East is unhappy with the oppression she faces she must be given the means and opportunity to leave such a situation. If a government is making such an exit next to impossible or extremely dangerous for its people – this is blatantly a human rights issue. Additionally mass health crisis in which governments are effectively facilitating mass homicide of its people by withholding information or purposely distributing false information is also a blatant human rights issues. Others do exist…these two were just the first to come to mind. As for other human rights issues that are less obvious it is up to advocacy groups to make American citizens aware and help get their movement noticed and heard. Once they can prove that majority support exists, the government must take it into consideration. I’m for heavy political involvement from the people. A lot of people are not. I hope I was clear enough...  |
BRG,
I hold you in pretty high esteem so ofcourse I was extremely disappointed when I read your last post. It literally seemed like you never actually took the time to think about the issues which were posed to you, so you tried shooting from the hip and ended up with a decidedly bad result.
I feel your argument was flawed in the following respects-
1) This concept you espoused about somehow leading the government through polling of the American citizen. While I'm given pause to admire(and laugh at) your utopian ideal, it just isn't practical for more reasons than I care to think about. The most obvious reason is we don't even elect President's this way(by popular vote) what makes you think we'd be able to run our foreign policy based on polling data? Another issue that comes immediately to mind is the various ways polls and polling data can be manipulated. Pollster's know how to pose certain questions in order to illict a desired result. Additionally they also know how to put a certain spin on those results to emphasize whatever point it is they are trying make. I could go on for days but I hope by now you've got a better understanding of where I'm coming from.
2) None of the issues you mention, "Apartheid…The International Aids Crisis…and finding peaceful solutions to the Middle East Conflict" would have benefitted from US military intervention. Given the context of the discussion I would have hoped you could have cited some scenerio's where military intervention would have been the best course of action. Additionally, I would really like you to think about exactly what "military intervention" means. Does it mean the US government should unilaterally decide to send over "peace-keepers" into hostile regions where we will have great difficulty identifying "the good guys" from "the bad guys"? Do you remember Somolia? Rent "Black Hawk" for a quick refresher course.
3) As for your "theory of human rights violation's"-
| QUOTE |
| By my estimation, a blatant human rights violation occurs when populations of people are not allowed to leave oppressed situations. I don’t think that the western world views outrank other countries; however, if a woman living in the Middle East is unhappy with the oppression she faces she must be given the means and opportunity to leave such a situation. If a government is making such an exit next to impossible or extremely dangerous for its people – this is blatantly a human rights issue. Additionally mass health crisis in which governments are effectively facilitating mass homicide of its people by withholding information or purposely distributing false information is also a blatant human rights issues. Others do exist…these two were just the first to come to mind. |
This literally gave me pause(and a real big laugh out loud) and caused me to completely rethink just how much I really think about your ability to reason. How do you suggest these people should be allowed to leave? Should their government purchase them a first class one-way ticket on the Concorde to New York where our immigration officials should recieve them with open arms??? Is this what you mean when you say, "she must be given the means and opportunity to leave such a situation"??? Come on now BRG you're better than, you're smarter than that. This is total and unmittigated horsedung. The stuff you said about "mass health crisis" isn't even worthy of a response.
Before we go around prenteding to be "Policemen to the world" we need to consider the ramifications of our actions. We need to stop and think about what happens after we send in 'Team America' to oust the "bad guys" and after the credits stop rolling. What happens next...
D
Constructive criticism appreciated...and I have been called idealistic 3 times this month alone, so this is nothing new to me.
As to your first point, I used Quinnipiac polling as a reference to the fact that there are ways in which the views of the American Public can be heard. It was not my intention to imply that each citizen should be called and question on every single issue facing the US government as a mean to decide military/diplomatic action. I had hoped that would be conversationally implied, considering how asinine the literal interpretation is.
To clarify so we have no further misunderstandings, are not our elected officials supposed to be our representatives to the world? Are they not responsible for voicing the concerns of the people who put them in office? Decisions they make in terms of foreign policy are no different. When they vote for us to go to war, vote for our tax money to be used in a military conflict, that vote should be representing the voice of the people living in their districts, cities and states - and their views. Idealistic perhaps...but this is my understanding of how an uncorrupt US government is SUPPOSED to work. The government is supposed to be representing what the American Citizen wants it to.
As to your second and third points, I think your perception of what was written is in opposition to what was actually posted on your screen. Never did I say the US Govt SHOULD unilaterally wage war on other countries without the input of other countries There is a difference between that statement and what I DID say which was that after diplomatic negotiations are exhausted...there is no need to seek permission from the global environment if the US chooses to wage war. There is a logical difference between the two.
(The difference lay between "should" and "can".)
As to your first point, I used Quinnipiac polling as a reference to the fact that there are ways in which the views of the American Public can be heard. It was not my intention to imply that each citizen should be called and question on every single issue facing the US government as a mean to decide military/diplomatic action. I had hoped that would be conversationally implied, considering how asinine the literal interpretation is.
To clarify so we have no further misunderstandings, are not our elected officials supposed to be our representatives to the world? Are they not responsible for voicing the concerns of the people who put them in office? Decisions they make in terms of foreign policy are no different. When they vote for us to go to war, vote for our tax money to be used in a military conflict, that vote should be representing the voice of the people living in their districts, cities and states - and their views. Idealistic perhaps...but this is my understanding of how an uncorrupt US government is SUPPOSED to work. The government is supposed to be representing what the American Citizen wants it to.
As to your second and third points, I think your perception of what was written is in opposition to what was actually posted on your screen. Never did I say the US Govt SHOULD unilaterally wage war on other countries without the input of other countries There is a difference between that statement and what I DID say which was that after diplomatic negotiations are exhausted...there is no need to seek permission from the global environment if the US chooses to wage war. There is a logical difference between the two.
(The difference lay between "should" and "can".)
| QUOTE |
| How do you suggest these people should be allowed to leave? Should their government purchase them a first class one-way ticket on the Concorde to New York where our immigration officials should recieve them with open arms??? Is this what you mean when you say, "she must be given the means and opportunity to leave such a situation"??? |
Language is a science. It is the science of putting words together in a way that effectively gets a desired point across. When I write I remain conscious of this, so it pains me when I am not understood. I have revised the below paragraph so that perhaps it is more effective in expressing my feelings
| QUOTE |
| By my estimation, a blatant human rights violation occurs when populations of people are not allowed to leave oppressed situations. I don’t think that the western world views outrank other countries; however, if a woman living in the Middle East is unhappy with the oppression she faces she must be given (by her government) the means and opportunity to leave such a situation. If (her) government is making such an exit next to impossible or extremely dangerous – this is blatantly a human rights issue. |
In NO Way was I implying that the US be responsible for taking in any and everybody with grievances in their country. Come on man...
Lastly I will reluctantly give you a "You are right Dill" on my choice of examples. Argument would be infinitely stronger using military scenarios.
The Biggie Duets album is actually pretty bangin'!
Who knew Juelz Santana would be the one to blow up Dip Set. Every where I go I hear people doing that dang whistle. And I heard it being played on the Top 40 station the other day. Cam is probably going to blow next.
So i'm at work and my boy in ATL calls me on three way with this dumb broad from ATL. He has court date coming up for some ticket so he tells her "yeah you like it when a man is in trouble with the law?" "you like'em thuggish right?" .......She say "well you light skinned though".....he said "what does that have to be with being a thug?" THIS BROAD SAYS! "you got to be more darkskinned to be considered a thug"..... 
ok i'm done
ok i'm done
I straight look like Penny from Good Times with my hair like this and boys that look like they're in jr. high keep staring at me.
I stopped eating chicken in Aug. of this yr. but damn do I have a taste for a spicey, white meat 2pc. w/ an extra biscut from Popeyes. I guess I'll settle for a bowl of gingersnap granola cereal
Lately, it seems as though there are more fine bi/gay guys than fine straight guys-just an observation.
I hate when people make a smart ass comment and then when u approach them about it, they say, "oh, I was just playin' ". It's so true that, "punks jump up to get beat down"!
I stopped eating chicken in Aug. of this yr. but damn do I have a taste for a spicey, white meat 2pc. w/ an extra biscut from Popeyes. I guess I'll settle for a bowl of gingersnap granola cereal
Lately, it seems as though there are more fine bi/gay guys than fine straight guys-just an observation.
I hate when people make a smart ass comment and then when u approach them about it, they say, "oh, I was just playin' ". It's so true that, "punks jump up to get beat down"!
| QUOTE (commonwealth @ Dec 7 2005, 08:03 PM) |
| So i'm at work and my boy in ATL calls me on three way with this dumb broad from ATL. He has court date coming up for some ticket so he tells her "yeah you like it when a man is in trouble with the law?" "you like'em thuggish right?" .......She say "well you light skinned though".....he said "what does that have to be with being a thug?" THIS BROAD SAYS! "you got to be more darkskinned to be considered a thug"..... ok i'm done |
Quiznos sirloin sub mad me sick . . . I ain’t messing with them again!
DAYUM HOW'D I MISS THIS HEAT?!!!??
First my son tells me that he's having a party today at school and he doesn't need lunch, then we get to school and it turns out the party aint til next week. Now I had to drag my behind back up to his school and bring him Mickey D's for lunch. The worst part is I felt bad like I shoulda brought Mickey D's for his whole class. They were all looking at his lunch like they were saying to themselves, "I gotta try this on my parents tomorrow".
| QUOTE (mrdilligaf456 @ Dec 8 2005, 12:17 PM) |
| First my son tells me that he's having a party today at school and he doesn't need lunch, then we get to school and it turns out the party aint til next week. Now I had to drag my behind back up to his school and bring him Mickey D's for lunch. The worst part is I felt bad like I shoulda brought Mickey D's for his whole class. They were all looking at his lunch like they were saying to themselves, "I gotta try this on my parents tomorrow". |
A little advise dad... NO HAPPY MEALS WHEN THEY SCREW UP!!! You should have bought him a salad and a Parfait....I betcha he'd bring his lunch just in case from now on.
| QUOTE (ELOCIN @ Dec 8 2005, 12:21 PM) | ||
A little advise dad... NO HAPPY MEALS WHEN THEY SCREW UP!!! You should have bought him a salad and a Parfait....I betcha he'd bring his lunch just in case from now on. |
Parental genius...that's some shit my mother would have done...or better yet she would brought some dry cereal in a bowl and a pint of milk...
The Clippers played like crap last night, but I got to meet Walt Frazier and Earl the Pearl
| QUOTE (mrdilligaf456 @ Dec 8 2005, 12:17 PM) |
| First my son tells me that he's having a party today at school and he doesn't need lunch, then we get to school and it turns out the party aint til next week. Now I had to drag my behind back up to his school and bring him Mickey D's for lunch. The worst part is I felt bad like I shoulda brought Mickey D's for his whole class. They were all looking at his lunch like they were saying to themselves, "I gotta try this on my parents tomorrow". |
a young genius, half of you gotta be proud tho......
cant knock the hustle.....
| QUOTE (ELOCIN @ Dec 8 2005, 12:21 PM) | ||
A little advise dad... NO HAPPY MEALS WHEN THEY SCREW UP!!! You should have bought him a salad and a Parfait....I betcha he'd bring his lunch just in case from now on. |
Could you imagine the pandemonium that woulda broke out if I rolled up with like 20 Mickey D bags with nothing in them but Parfait and Salad? That ish would be classic. There would be a stampede to get their lunchboxes and eat whatever their parents packed for them.
I had my first snowboarding dream for the season last night.
Random Thought #1: How can a fat person work for Weight Watchers?
Random Thought #2: If I lust over a man because he looks like Jesus, would that be a sin?
Random Thought #2: If I lust over a man because he looks like Jesus, would that be a sin?
| QUOTE (SeeLaH @ Dec 8 2005, 01:26 PM) |
| Random Thought #1: How can a fat person work for Weight Watchers? Random Thought #2: If I lust over a man because he looks like Jesus, would that be a sin? |
Random Answers:
#1: EZ, if they don't lose weight in a year, they should be fired
#2 You should have your own image of Jesus. If you see the marketed image of Him in someone then you have lost your mind anyway...
| QUOTE (slave @ Dec 8 2005, 01:31 PM) | ||
Random Answers: #1: EZ, if they don't lose weight in a year, they should be fired #2 You should have your own image of Jesus. If you see the marketed image of Him in someone then you have lost your mind anyway... |
I do but I was referring to the "White Looking Jesus" in most churches....next time, I'll put "Jesus" in quotation marks so it would be clearer.
(Just an explanation....I saw a guy today when I was getting lunch. He was Hispanic but had a huge beard and long straight hair like "White Jesus". Yes, I was lusting....I like when men look like that. but that's just me..)
so slave...am I a sinner or what? (maybe in 5 years, you all will start to figure out when I'm being scarcastic)
i hate the endings of terry McMillian novels. I love disappearing acts. i just re-read it (first time i was like 12) and i always thought it is her best book. the ending was so anti-climatic-- better than the interuption of everything, but still...
i need a good book. i was thinking "Naked".
my hair is super fluffy today. i got sick of braids so i took them out, now i have this huge angela davis poof. i had no idea my hair would grow that fast in braids.
i gotta cut this down or something.
i need a good book. i was thinking "Naked".
my hair is super fluffy today. i got sick of braids so i took them out, now i have this huge angela davis poof. i had no idea my hair would grow that fast in braids.
i gotta cut this down or something.
| QUOTE (SeeLaH @ Dec 8 2005, 01:37 PM) | ||||
I do but I was referring to the "White Looking Jesus" in most churches....next time, I'll put "Jesus" in quotation marks so it would be clearer. (Just an explanation....I saw a guy today when I was getting lunch. He was Hispanic but had a huge beard and long straight hair like "White Jesus". Yes, I was lusting....I like when men look like that. but that's just me..) so slave...am I a sinner or what? (maybe in 5 years, you all will start to figure out when I'm being scarcastic) |
Were all sinners, Jesus too. So yes you are a sinner, is it gonna count when yu get to the death elevator, I doubt it.
I enjoy sarcasm and being the devils' advocate just for the sake of thought and presenting opposing perspectives. Even if I disagree with myself in my self-truth.. My heart is honestly in the right place. Am I a sinner for presenting these negative thoughts even though I don't embody them?
| QUOTE (SeeLaH @ Dec 8 2005, 01:26 PM) |
| Random Thought #1: How can a fat person work for Weight Watchers? Random Thought #2: If I lust over a man because he looks like Jesus, would that be a sin? |
Oh my goodness...I am so attracted to dudes that have a Jesus look to them. It's so funny because I've seen the look on black dudes, white dudes, asian dudes, native american dudes...it doesn't matter the skin color...the look transends race...
I've always thought it a little perverted...but its the truth
slave posts some interesting comments to a wide variety of topics - even when he is negative he's fascinating - I love reading the comments
weezy504 posts in a way that makes me doubt B and Jay's relationship and question the industry as a whole - I love reading the comments
TheProfessional posts in a way that makes me want to get back into the biz - I love reading the comments
Kounslor posts in a manner that makes we want to be a laywer and a dang azz INTELLIGENT one at that - I love reading the comments
-- WIN
weezy504 posts in a way that makes me doubt B and Jay's relationship and question the industry as a whole - I love reading the comments
TheProfessional posts in a way that makes me want to get back into the biz - I love reading the comments
Kounslor posts in a manner that makes we want to be a laywer and a dang azz INTELLIGENT one at that - I love reading the comments
-- WIN
right now I'm thinking about snowboarding in a tee shirt at lake tahoe, sunny 64 degrees and I'm high off trees
why am i going to a indoor go-kart track this weekend where the go-karts go so fast you have to sign a death waiver before you ride
MAN I LOVE SPEED!
MAN I LOVE SPEED!
| QUOTE (MsBrg722 @ Dec 8 2005, 02:03 PM) | ||
Oh my goodness...I am so attracted to dudes that have a Jesus look to them. It's so funny because I've seen the look on black dudes, white dudes, asian dudes, native american dudes...it doesn't matter the skin color...the look transends race... I've always thought it a little perverted...but its the truth |
thank you...someone who understands my plight.
If there is a heaven and if there is a pearly gate, it would be hell if I go up there and Jesus is the ugliest mo fo to be put into existence.
and slave...I know I'm a sinner man...that one was rhetorical and scarcastic...geez.
lighten up buddy!! better yet....LIGHT IT UP BUDDY!!
Oh goodness, it's snowing soooo bad out right now....they say we'll get about 3-5 inches but it looks like a freakin' blizzard out there!! The first big snow- HATED IT!!
....On another thought, I have a friend who's got that Jesus thang going on right now.... *shaking my head* "Black Jesus", that's one sexy man!!! Good Lawd , I wish y'all could see him!
....On another thought, I have a friend who's got that Jesus thang going on right now.... *shaking my head* "Black Jesus", that's one sexy man!!! Good Lawd
, I wish y'all could see him!
| QUOTE (commonwealth @ Dec 8 2005, 03:14 PM) |
| why am i going to a indoor go-kart track this weekend where the go-karts go so fast you have to sign a death waiver before you ride MAN I LOVE SPEED! |
sun might have to roll with you for that. I'm a extreme negro
I'm chilling right now, I got my camouflage print longjohn's under my clothes.
| QUOTE (mrdilligaf456 @ Dec 8 2005, 04:06 PM) |
| I'm chilling right now, I got my camouflage print longjohn's under my clothes. |
long johns are great in the winter when you go arm & hammer.
Would you consider her "black" now that she has a black man and a black baby?
(scarcastic question slave...answer back just as scarcastically, if you wish)
i cant believe how busy my day has been..ugh!
I must admit i'm an incredible salesman.
| QUOTE (RoyaleWithCheese @ Dec 8 2005, 05:57 PM) |
| I must admit i'm an incredible salesman. |
and liar.
| QUOTE (MsBrg722 @ Dec 8 2005, 06:01 PM) | ||
and liar. |
Stick to long drawn out answers that make no sense.
If I lie to sell, am I not still a salesman???
I can respect the fact that you'll admit to bending the truth a bit just to sell.
| QUOTE (RoyaleWithCheese @ Dec 8 2005, 06:11 PM) | ||||
Stick to long drawn out answers that make no sense. If I lie to sell, am I not still a salesman??? |
There's a reason they make no sense to you...Don't be mad cuz you still got inventory...
(And he don't bend...he LIES...poor little old ladies
)
| QUOTE (MsBrg722 @ Dec 8 2005, 06:25 PM) |
| Don't be mad cuz you still got inventory... (And he don't bend...he LIES...poor little old ladies ) |
I was doing SO SO well.....and then your bad luck ass showed up.
| QUOTE (RoyaleWithCheese @ Dec 8 2005, 06:11 PM) | ||||
Stick to long drawn out answers that make no sense. |
Man, this case SUCKS!!!~
Shoveling snow sucks.
just had a lumbar epidural, bed ridden till tuesday 
I don't understand how one takes time out to holla in cold, wet conditions at 9 in the morning when I look like this 
with glasses and no makeup on to boot
with glasses and no makeup on to boot
he must like eskimo beauty. lol
Dayum! I'm gettin' buried up here!!!
| QUOTE (acevac @ Dec 9 2005, 10:45 AM) |
| just had a lumbar epidural, bed ridden till tuesday |
For your back? The pain is that bad?
I will be sneaking out early to see 'Syriana'
| QUOTE (acevac @ Dec 9 2005, 10:45 AM) |
| just had a lumbar epidural, bed ridden till tuesday |
dang sun.... hope it helped ease the pain.
***************
King-Kong tomorrow... or Narnia.
| QUOTE (RoyaleWithCheese @ Dec 9 2005, 12:42 PM) |
| I will be sneaking out early to see 'Syriana' |
good idea
| QUOTE (FOLKS @ Dec 9 2005, 01:15 PM) | ||
good idea |
I forgot that was coming out today. I'll have to see it tomorrow night.
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